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THE 



VOTES AND SPEECHES 



MARTIN VAN BEEN. 



SUBJECTS OK THE RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE, THE aUALIFICATIONS OF CO- 
LOURED PERSONS TO VOTE, AND THE APPOINTMENT OR 
ELECTION OF JUSTICES OF THE PEACE. 



IN THE CONVENTION OF THE STATE OF NEW-YORK, 

(Assembled to amend the Constitution in 1821.) 



DULY AUTHENTICATED AND VERIFIED. 



>^\ 




ALBANY : 

PRINTED BY THURLOW WEED, 
1846." 



,1 



^SV 



[Having seen the annexed correspondence and extractSj we procured a 
copy for publication, to enable us to answer the numerous inquiries on the 
subject, addressed to us from various parts of the United States. — Editok 
Albany Evening Journal.] 



(Copy of a letter from Greer W. Davis.) 

Jackson, Cape Girardeau County, Missouri, 
May I9th, 1840. 
Dear Sir: 

It is my desire, if compatible with your duties, to 
obtain from the Secretary's office a certified copy of the votes 
of Martin Van Buren in the New- York Convention, on the fol- 
lowing subjects : First. His vote on his opposition to any man 
voting unless he was a householder. Secondly. His vote on the 
proposition to restrict the right of voting to white citizens ; and 
Thirdly. His vote opposing the election of justices of the peace 
by the people, and what he said directly on these subjects. If 
it is proper for you to give me such a certificate, I want it pro- 
perly authenticated ; on the contrary, if the votes of Van Buren 
were in favor of universal suffrage, in favor of elections of jus- 
tices of the peace by the people, and opposed to free negroes 
voting, your simple statement to that effect would be sufficient, 
and I would no longer urge the contrary against him as a rea- 
son why he should not be re-elected. I live in that part of Mis- 
souri where Van Buren principles prevail, and it is my desire 
to procure that kind of testimony that cannot be refuted. When 
such testimony as the above is presented from newspapers or 
Holland's life, it is treated with contempt. You know whether 
it is your privilege to furnish me with what I request, or not ; 
if it is not, you will not of course hesitate to refuse it ; but, sir, 
if you will not be acting out of the line of your duty, I shall be 
greatly obliged, and will cheerfully remit all the necessary 
fees. 

Very respectfully yours, 

GREER W. DAVIS. 
To the Secretary of the State of Neiv- York, 

Albany, New-York. 



Secretary's Office, ^ 
Albany, 2Bd June, 1840. S 
Greer W. Davis, Esq. 

Jackson, Cape Girardeau County, Missouri. 

Sir : — I have received your letter, in w^hicli you request " a 
certified copy of the votes of Martin Van Buren in the New- 
York Convention, on the following subjects : First. His vote 
on the opposition to any man voting unless he was a house- 
holder. Second. His vote on the proposition to restrict the 
right of voting to white citizens ; and Third. His vote opppos- 
ing the election of justices of the peace by the people, and what 
he said directly on these subjects." You also state the reasons 
why you desire an official certificate of the matters mentioned. 

By the act of the legislature providing for the meeting of the 
convention, it is directed that their proceedings should be filed 
in this office. I find deposited here the journal of the conven- 
tion, printed by the printers to the state, and which I presume 
are the proceedings referred to in the act. The journals of the 
two houses are, in like manner, deposited in this office in a 
printed form. Indeed the journals exist in no other form, and 
when printed by the state printer, are bylaw evidence. It has 
been the practice for the Secretary of State to certify copies of 
any portion of the journals that was required. Under these cir- 
cumstances, I conceive it to be my duty to comply with your 
request for certified copies of those parts of the journal of the 
convention which contain the votes on the subjects indicated by 
you. In order to present those votes fully and fairly, it be- 
came necessary to extract all that exhibited the subject or pro- 
positions on which they were given, and this has caused their 
length. The journals contain nothing but a record of the pro- 
ceedings of the convention, and, therefore, what Mr. Van Bu- 
ren, or any other member, said in the course of debate, does 
not appear in them. But during the sitting of the convention, 
reporters of great ability attended, and the remarks of the 
members were published from day to day in the newspapers of 
the state. Upon the adjournment of that body, there appeared 
a volume of more than 700 pages, entitled ^' Reports of the 
proceedings and debates of the convention of 1821, assembled 
for the purpose of amending the constitution of the State of New- 
York; containing all the official documents relating to the sub- 
ject, and other valuable matter. By Nathaniel H. Carter and 
Wilham L. Stone, reporters, and Marcus T. C. Gould, steno- 
grapher." It has always been considered an accurate account 
of the remarks and speeches in the convention, and I have ne- 
ver heard it charged with unfairness, or with attributing to any 
member sentiments he did not utter. On the contrary, it is 



constantly referred to by editors and writers of the different po- 
litical parties, as authority on the STibject, of what was said and 
done in the convention. It is understood that the editors of this 
volume were unfriendly to many of the provisions contained in 
the new constitution. About the same time there was also pu- 
blished a volume of some 350 pages, entitled " Reports of the 
debates and proceedings in the Convention of the State of New- 
York, held at the capitol in the city of Albany, on the 28th 
day of August, 1821. By L. H. Clarke." This is substanti- 
ally like the former work, being compiled, as the editor states, 
from the same materials. The editor of this volume was, at 
the time, the political friend of Mr. Van Buren, and friendly to 
all the important provisions incorporated in the constitution. 
The speeches given by him were, as he states in his preface, 
published in the New- York American, a paper at that time co- 
operating with Mr. Van Buren. These books are not official, 
and of course no official evidence of thdr contents can be given. 
Still it seems but just to the members of the convention, that 
the explanation of their views, whicii they gave at the time, 
should accompany their votes. As it is impossible to transmit 
the books to you by any means of conveyance within my reach, 
I have thought that I could comply with your request as nearly 
as circumstances permitted, by having those passages faithfully 
copied whicli contained the remarks of Mr. Van Buren on the 
subjects indicated by you. This has been done, and I have 
compared them with the original. It so happens that these 
passages are, verbatim, alike in the two volumes of reports be- 
fore described. 

I have felt some reluctance in verifying these copies by my 
certificate. I have no desire to be forward in furnishing mate- 
rials for political contest. But I am called upon by those who 
are entitled to know what Mr. Van Buren said, to furnish them 
authentic evidence of his remarks. While I am under no 
greater obligation to do so than any other citizen, yet I am un- 
der the same as any other, and if I may refuse compliance 
with a request in itself civil and proper, others may do the 
same'. I was unwilling also to give what might appear a semi- 
official sanction to these extracts. But with the explanation 
now made, that my certificate of the accuracy of the copies is 
wholly and exclusively individual, I think there can be no 
danger of any greater credit l)eing given to them than they are 
entitled to receive. Upon the whole I have concluded, that I 
had no right to refuse the only evidence that it was in my 
power to give of these being faithful extracts, so that those who 
desired it should have the means of judging for themselves, and 
of correcting the many misrepresentations which have prevailed 



on the subject. It is proper to observe, that the extracts given 
contain the whole of what is reported in the volumes before 
mentioned, as having been said at the time by Mr. Van Buren 
on the given subjects, and of course there is some superfluous 
matter. But 1 did not feel at liberty to abridge, or in any man- 
ner vary the original. 

Respectfully, 

Your ob't serv't, 

JOHN C. SPENCER. 



EXTRACTS 

From the Journal of the Convention of the State of 
New- York, begun and held at the Capitol in the 
city of Albany, on the 28th day of August, 1821. 



[p. 90.] THURSDAY, TEN O'CLOCK A. M. 

Septembe7' 20, 1821. 

The convention met pursuant to adjournment. On motion 
of Mr. N. Sanford, 

The convention then resolved itself into a committee of the 
whole on the report of the committee on the right of suffrage 
and the qualifications of persons to be elected : and after some 
time spent thereon, Mr. President resumed the chair, and Mr. 
N. Williams from the said committee reported, that in further 
proceeding on the said report, the first amendment proposed 
by the select committee, was again read in the words follow- 
ing, to wit : 

Every white male citizen of the age of twenty-one years, 
who shall have resided in this state six months next preceding 
any election, and shall within one year preceding the election, 
have paid any tax assessed upon him, or shall within one year 
preceding the election, have been assessed to work on a public 
road, and shall have performed the work assessed upon him, 
or shall have paid an equivalent in money therefor, according 
to law, or shall, within one year preceding the election, have 
been enrolled in the militia of this state, and shall have served 
therein according to law, shall be entitled to vote at such elec- 
tion in the town or ward in which he shall reside, for governor, 
lieutenant governor, senators, members of the assembly, and 
all other officers who are or may be elected by the people. 

That Mr. Jay made a motion to strike out the word " white " 
in the first line of the said amendment. 

That debates were had thereon, and the question having 
been put whether the committee would agree to the said mo 
lion, it was carried in the affirmative. 



8 

That the yeas and nays being called for by Mr. R. Clarke, 
seconded by Mr. Tallmadge, and having been required by ten 
members, were as follows, to wit : Ayes 63. Nays 59. 

For the affirmative : — Mr. Bacon, Mr. Baker, Mr. Barlow, 
Mr. Beckwith, Mr. Birdseye, Mr. Brinkerhoff, Mr. Brooks, Mr. 
Buel, Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Carver, Mr. R. Clarke, Mr. Collins, 
Mr. Cramer, Mr. Day, Mr. Dodge, Mr. Duer, Mr. Eastwood, 
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Ferris, Mr. Fish, Mr. Hallock, Mr. Hees, 
Mr, Hogeboom, Mr. Hunting, Mr. Huntington, Mr. Jay, Mr. 
Jones, Mr. Kent, Mr. King, Mr. Moore, Mr. Munro, Mr. Nel- 
son, Mr. Park, Mr. Paulding, Mr. Pitcher, Mr. Piatt, Mr. 
ReevCj Mr. Rhinelander, Mr. Richards, Mr. Rogers, Mr. 
Rosebrugh, Mr. Sanders, Mr. N. Sanford, Mr. Seaman, Mr. 
Steele, Mr. D. Southerland, Mr. Swift, Mr. Sylvester, Mr. 
Tallmadge, Mr. Tuttle, Mr. Van Buren, Mr. Van Ness, Mr. J. 
R. Van Rensselaer, Mr. S. Van Rensselaer, Mr. Van Vechten, 
Mr. W^ard, Mr. A. W^ebster, Mr. W^endover, Mr. V^heaton, Mr= 
E. Vi^illiams, Mr. Woodward, Mr. Wooster, Mr. Yates. 

For the Negative : — Mr. Bowman, Mr. Breese, Mr. Briggs, 
Mr. Carpenter, Mr. Case, Mr. Child, Mr. D. Clark, Mr. Clyde, 
Mr. Dubois, Mr. Dyckman, Mr. Fairlie, Mr. Fenton, Mr. Frost, 
Mr. Howe, Mr. Humphrey, Mr. Hunt, Mr. Hunter, Mr. Hurd, 
Mr. Knowles, Mr. Lansing, Mr. Lawrence, Mr. Lefferts, Mr, 
A. Livingston, Mr. P. R. Livingston, Mr. McCall, Mr. Milli- 
kin, Mr. Pike, Mr. Porter, Mr. Price, Mr. Pumpelly, Mr. Rad- 
chff, Mr. Rockwell, Mr. Root, Mr. Rose, Mr. Ross, Mr. Rus- 
sel, Mr. Sage, Mr. R. Sanford, Mr. Schenck, Mr. Seeley, Mr. 
Sharpe, Mr. Sheldon, Mr. J. Smith, Mr. R. Smith, Mr. Spen- 
cer, Mr. Starkweather, Mr. J. Sutherland, Mr. Taylor, Mr. 
Ten Eyck, Mr. Townley, Mr. Townsend, Mr. Tripp, Mr. Van 
Fleet, Mr. Van Home, Mr. Verbryck, Mr. E. V^ebster, Mr. 
Wheeler, Mr. Woods, Mr. Young. 



Extract from the Journal of 
(p. 155.) THURSDAY, NINE OXLOCK A. M. 

October 4, 1821. 

On motion of Mr. Van Buren, 

The convention then again resolved itself into a committee of 
the whole, on the report of the committee on so mucli of the 
constitution as relates to the power of appointment to office, and 
the tenure thereof ; and after some time spent thereon, Mr. Pre- 
sident resumed the chair, and Mr. Lawrence, from the said 
committee, reported, that in further proceeding on the said re- 
poft, the first part of the fifth amendment thereof was again 
xead in the words following, to wit : 



V. That there shall be elected in every town in this state, 
by the persons qualified to vote for members of the legislature, 
so many justices of the peace as the legislature may direct, not 
exceeding four in any town. 

That debates were had thereon, and the question having 
been put whether the committee would agree to the same, it 
passed in the negative. 

That the yeas and nays having been required by ten mem- 
bers, were as follows, to wit: Nays 57. Ayes 54. 

For the negative : — Mr. Barlow, Mr. Beckwith, Mr. Birds- 
eye, Mr. Breese, Mr. Bucl, Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Carver, Mr. 
Case, Mr. Child, Mr. R. Clark, Mr. Clyde, Mr. Cramer, Mr. 
Dodge, Mr, Dubois, Mr. Fairlie, Mr. Fenton, Mr. Ferris, Mr. 
Frost, Mr. Hogeboom, Mr. Howe, Mr. Humphrey, Mr. Hunt, 
Mr. Hunter, Mr. Hunting, Mr, Jay, Mr. Jones, Mr. Knowles, 
Mr. Lansing, Mr. Munro, Mr. Nelson, Mr. Park, Mr. Pike, 
Mr. President, Mr. Pumpelly, Mr. Radcliff, Mr. Richards, Mr. 
Root, Mr. Ross, Mr. Russell; Mr. Seaman, Mr. Sheldon, Mr. 
I. Smith, Mr, Starkweather, Mr. Steele, Mr. J, Sutherland, 
Mr. Swift, Mr. Sylvester, Mr. Taylor, Mr. Tuttle, Mr. Van 
Buren, Mr. Van Home, Mr. S. Van Rensselaer, Mr. Van 
Vechten, Mr. Wheeler, Mr. N. Williams, Mr. Yates, Mr. 
Young. 

For the affirmaiiiie : — Mr. Bacon, Mr. Baker, Mr. Bowman, 
Mr. Briggs, Mr. Brinkerhoflf, Mr. Brooks, Mr. Carpenter, Mr. 
Collins, Mr. Day, Mr. Duer, Mr. Dyckman, Mr. Eastwood, 
Mr. Edwards, Mr. Fish, Mr. Hallock, Mr. Hees, Mr. Hunting- 
ton, Mr. Hurd, Mr. Kent, Mr. King, Mr. Lefferts, Mr. A. Li- 
vingston, Mr. McCall, Mr. Millikin, Mr. Moore, Mr. Paulding, 
Mr. Pitcher, Mr. Piatt, Mr. Porter, Mr. Price, Mr. Reeve, Mr. 
Rhinelander, Mr. Rosebrugh, Mr. Sage, Mr. Sanders, Mr. N. 
Sanford, Mr. R. Sanford, Mr. Seeley, Mr. Sharpe, Mr. R. 
Smith, Mr. Spencer, Mr. Stagg, Mr. D. Southerland, Mr. Tall- 
madge, Mr. Townley, Mr. Van Fleet, Mr. Van Ness, Mr. J 
R. Van Rensselaer, Mr. Ward, Mr. E. Webster, Mr. Wendo- 
ver, Mr. Wheaton, Mr. E. Wilhams, Mr. Woodward. 



Extract from the Journal of 
(p. 158.) FRIDAY, NINE O'CLOCK A. M. 

October 5, 1821. 
The convention met pursuant to adjournment. On motion 
of Mr. Ross, 

The convention then again resolved itself into a committee 
of the vvhole, on the report of the committee on so much of the 

2 



10 

constitution as relates to the power of appointment to office and 
the tenure thereof ; and after some time spent thereon, Mr. Pre- 
sident resumed the chair, and Mr. Lawrence, from the said 
committee, reported, that in further proceeding on the said re- 
port, the second amendment, relative to the appointment of ci- 
vil officers, after being amended, was again read in the words 
following, to wit : 

II. That the Governor shall nominate by message, in writ- 
ing, and with the consent of the senate shall appoint the Secre- 
tary of State, Attorney-General, and all judicial officers, except 
justices of the peace. 

That Mr. Van Buren made a motion to add to the said 
amendment the words following, to wit : 

" Who shall be appointed in the manner following, to wit : 
That the board of supervisors in every county in this state, shall 
once in every years, at such time as the legislature may 

direct, recommend to the Governor a list of persons, equal in 
number to the justices of the peace to be appointed for said 
county ; and the respective courts of common pleas of the se- 
veral counties shall also recommend a list of the like number. 
And as often as any vacancies shall happen, the boards of su- 
pervisors and courts of common pleas of the counties in which 
such vacancies may happen, shall recommend lists of persons 
equal to the number of vacancies in such county : and from the 
lists so recommended, the Governor shall appoint and commis- 
sion the justices of the peace for the respective counties. That 
the said justices shall hold their offices for years, but 

may be removed by the Governor, on the address of the body 
which recommended the appointment, stating in writing the 
grounds of removal." 

That debates were had thereon, and the question having 
been put, whether the committee would agree to the said mo- 
tion, it passed in the negative. 

I'hat the yeas and nays having been required by ten mem- 
bers, were as follows, to wit : Nays 58. Ayes 56. 

For the negative : — Mr. Bacon, Mr, Baker, Mr. Bowman, 
Mr. Briggs, Mr. Brooks, Mr. Carpenter, Mr. Collins, Mr. 
Duer, Mi. Edwards, Mr. Fish, Mr. Hallock, Mr. Hees, Mr. 
Hogeboom, Mr. Huntington, Mr. Hurd, Mr. Jay, Mr. Jones, 
Mr. Kent, Mr. King, Mr. Lefferts, Mr. A. Livingston, Mr. Mc- 
Call, Mr. Millikin, Mr. Moore, Mr. Paulding, Mr. Piatt, Mr. 
Porter, Mr. Price, Mr. Radcliff, Mr. Rhinelander, Mr. Rose, 
Mr. Rosebrugh, Mr. Sage, Mr. Sanders, Mr. N. Sanford, Mr. 
R. Sanford, Mr. Seeley, Mr. Sharpe, Mr. I. Smith, Mr. R. 
Smith, Mr. Spencer, Mr. Stagg, Mr. D. Southerland, Mr. Syl- 
vester, Mr. Tallmadge, Mr. Townley, Mr. Van Fleet, Mr. Van 



11 

Ness, Mr. J. R. Van Rensselaer, Mr. S. Van Rensselaer, Mr. 
Van Vechten, Mr> Ward, Mr. E. Webster, Mr. Wendover, Mr. 
Wheaton, Mr. E. Williams, Mr. Woods, Mr. Woodward. 

For the Affirmative : — Mr, Barlow, Mr. Beckwith, Mr. Birds- 
eye, Mr. Breese, Mr. Brinkerlioff, Mr. Buel, Mr. Burroughs, 
Mr. Carver, Mr. Case, Mr. Child, Mr. R. Clarke, Mr. Clyde, 
Mr. Cramer, Mr. Day, Mr. Dodge, Mr. Dubois, Mr. Dyck 
man, Mr. Eastwood, Mr. Fairlie, Mr. Fenton, Mr. Ferris, Mr. 
Frost, Mr. Howe, Mr. Humphrey, Mr. Hunt, Mr. Hunter, Mr. 
Hunting, Mr. Lansing, Mr. Munro, Mr. Nelson, Mr. Park, Mr. 
Pike, Mr. Pitcher, Mr. President, Mr. Pumpelly, Mr. Reeve, 
Mr. Richards, Mr. Root, Mr. Ross, Mr. Russell, Mr. Schenck, 
Mr. Sheldon, Mr. Starkweather, Mr. Steele, Mr. J. Sutherland, 
Mr. Swift, Mr. Taylor, Mr. Townsend, Mr. Tripp, Mr. Tut- 
tle, Mr. Van Buren, Mr. Van Home, Mr. Wheeler, Mr. N. 
Wilhams, Mr. Yates, Mr. Young. 



Extract from, the Journal of 
fp. 168.] SATURDAY, NINE O'CLOCK, A. M. 

October Q, 1821. 

That in further proceeding on the said report of the select 
committee, the second division of the said amendment was 
again read in the words following, to wit : 

" And also every male citizen of the age of twenty-one years, 
who shall have been for three years next preceding such elec- 
tion, an inhabitant of this State, and for the last year a resi- 
dent in the town, county or district where he may offer his 
vote ; and shall have been within the last year assessed to labor 
upon the public highways, and shall have performed the labor, 
or paid an equivalent therefor, according to law ; shall be enti- 
tled to vote in the town or ward where he actually resides, and 
not elsewhere, for all offices that now are, or hereafter may be 
elective by the people." 

That Mr. Radcliflf then made a motion to expunge the words 
following, commencing in the fifth line, to wit : " And shall 
have been, within the last year, assessed to labor upon the pu- 
blic highways, and shall have performed the labor or paid an 
equivalent therefor according to law." 

That debates were had thereon, and the question having 
been put, whether the committee would agree to the said mo- 
tion, it passed in the negative. 

That the yeas and nays having been required by ten mem- 
bers, were as follows, to wit: Nays 88, Ayes 14. 



12 

For the Negative : — Mr. Beckwith, Mr. Birdseye, Mr. 
Bowman, Mr. Breese, Mr. Brinkerhoff, Mr. Brooks, Mr. 
Bu\3l, Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Carpenter, Mr, Carver, Mr. Case, 
Mr. Child, Mr. D. Clark, Mr. R. Clarke, Mr. Clyde, Mr. Col- 
hns, Mr. Cramer, Mr. Day, Mr. Dodge, Mr. Dubois, Mr. Duer, 
Mr. Eastwood, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Fenton, Mr. Ferris, Mr. 
Fish, Mr. Frost, Mr. Hallock, Mr. Hees, Mr. Hogeboom, Mr. 
Howe, Mr. Humphrey, Mr. Hunt, Mr. Hunting, Mr. Hunting- 
ton, Mr. Hurd, Mr. Jay, Mr. Jones, Mr. Kent, Mr. Lansing, 
Mr. Lefferts, Mr. A. Livingston, Mr. McCall, Mr. Moore, Mr. 
Munro, Mr. Nelson, Mr. Park, Mr. Paulding, Mr. Pike, Mr. 
Pitcher, Mr. Piatt, Mr. Porter, Mr. President, Mr. Price, Mr. 
Pumpellv, Mr. Rhinelander, Mr. Richards, Mr. Root, Mr. 
Rosebrugh, Mr. Ross, Mr. Russell, Mr. Sage, Mr. R. San- 
ford, Mr. Schenck, Mr. Seeley, Mr. Sharpe, Mr. Sheldon, Mr. 
R. Smith, Mr. Spencer, Mr. Stagg, Mr. Starkweather, Mr. 
Steele, Mr. Swift, Mr. Tallmadge, Mr. Taylor, Mr. Townsend, 
Mr. Tuttle, Mr. Van Euren, Mr. Van Fleet, Mr. Van Ness, 
Mr. Ward, Mr. E. Webster, Mr. Wendover, Mr. Wheaton, 
Mr. Wheeler, Mr. E. Williams, Mr. Woodward, Mr. Young. 

For the Affirmative : — Mr. Bacon, Mr. Barlow, Mr. Briggs, 
Mr. Dyckman, Mr. Fairlie, Mr. King, Mr. Lawrence, Mr. 
Radcliff, Mr. N. Sanford, Mr. Seaman, Mr. L Smith, Mr. S. 
Van Rensselaer, Mr. Van Vechten, Mr. Woods. 
{Page 173, sa7Jie day, October 6.) 

That the third division of the said amendment was again 
read in the words following to wit : 

" Provided, That no male citizen other than white, shall be 
subject to taxation, or entitled to vote at any election, unless in 
addition to the qualifications of age and residence last above 
mentioned, he shall be seised and possessed, in his own right, 
of a freehold estate of the value of two hundred and fifty dol- 
lars over and above all debts and incumbrances charged there- 
on ; and shall have been, within the year next preceding the 
election, assessed, and shall have actually paid a tax to the 
State or county." 

That debates were had thereon, and the question having been 
put, whether the committee would agree to the same, it was 
carried in the affirmative. 

That the yeas and nays having been required by ten mem- 
bers, were as follows, to wit : Ayes 72, Nays 28. 

For the Affirmative : — Mr. Barlow, Mr. Beckwith, Mr. Bow- 
man, Mr. Briggs, Mr. Brinkerhoff, Mr. Burroughs, Mr. Car- 
penter, Mr. Carver, Mr. Case, Mr. D. Clark, Mr. Colhns, Mr. 
Dodge, Mr. Dubois, Mr. Dyckman, Mr. Edwards, Mr. Fairlie, 
Mr. Fenton, Mr. Ferris, Mr. Frost, Mr. Hallock, Mr. Howe, 



13 

Mr. Humphrey^ Mr. Hunt, Mr. Hunting, Mr, Hurd, Mr. Lan 
sing, Mr. Lawrence, Mr. Lefferts, Mr. A. Livingston, Mr. Mc- 
Call, Mr. Moore, Mr. Nelson, Mr. Park, Mr. Pike, Mr. Porter, 
Mr. President, Mr. Price, Mr. Pumpelly, Mr. RadcliflF, Mr. 
Richards, Mr. Rosebrugh, Mr. Ross, Mr. Russell, Mr. Sage, 
Mr. R. Sanford, Mr. Schenck, Mr. Seaman, Mr. Seeley, Mr. 
Sharpe, Mr. Sheldon, Mr. L Smith, Mr. R. Smith, Mr. Stagg, 
Mr. Starkweather, Mr. Steele, Mr. D. Southerland, Mr. Swift, 
Mr. Tallmadge, Mr. Taylor, Mr. Townsend, Mr. Tripp, Mr. 
Tuttle, Mr. Van Buren, Mr. Van Fleet, Mr. Van Home, Mr. 
Ward, Mr. E. Webster, Mr. Wendover, Mr. Wheeler, Mr. 
Woods, Mr. Woodward, Mr. Young. 

For the Negative : — Mr. Bacon, Mr. Birdseye, Mr. Brooks, 
Mr. Buel, Mr. Child, Mr. R. Clarke, Mr. Clyde, Mr. Day, 
Mr. Duer, Mr. Eastwood, Mr. Fish, Mr. Hees, Mr. Hunting- 
ton, Mr. Jay, Mr. Jones, Mr. Kent, Mr. King, Mr. Mmiro, 
Mr. Paulding, Mr. Pitcher, Mr. Platf, Mr. Rhinelander, Mr. 
Root, Mr. N. Sanford, Mr. Spencer, Mr. Van Ness, Mr. J. R. 
Van Rensselaei, Mr. S. Van Rensselaer, Mr. Wheaton, Mr. 
E. Williams. 

STATE OF NEW-YORK, 
Secretary's Office. 

I certify that I have compared the foregoing extracts with the 
original passages contained in the Journal of the Convention of 
the State of New-York, begun and held at the Capitol in the 
city of Albany on the twenty-eighth day of August, 1821, 
printed by the Printers to the State and deposited in this office, 
and now in my custody,, and that the same are correct tran- 
scripts therefrom, and of the whole of the said original passa- 
ges. 

In testimony whereof I have hereunto set my 
[l. s.] hand and affixed my seal of office at Albany, this 
twenty- third day of June, 1840. 

JOHN C. SPENCER, 

Secretary of State^ 



EXTRACTS 

From Carter & Stone's Reports of the Proceedings 
and Debates in the Convention of 1821, assembled 
for the purpose of amending the Constitution of 
the State of New-York. 



Extract f?'0}7i proceedings of Thursday, Septe?nber 21, 1821, 

page 277. 
RIGHT OF SUFFRAGE. 

Mr. Van Buren felt himself called on to make a few re- 
marks in reply to the gentleman from Delaware. He observed, 
that it was evident, and indeed some gentlemen did not seem 
disposed to disguise it, that the amendment proposed by the 
honorable gentleman from Delaware contemplated nothing short 
of universal suffrage. Mr. V. B. did not believe that there 
were twenty members of that committee, who, were the bare 
naked question of universal suffrage put to them, would vote 
in its favor ; and he was very sure that its adoption was not ex- 
pected, and would not meet the views of their constituents. 

Mr. V. B. then replied to a statement made yesterday by his 
honorable and venerable friend from Erie, (Mr. Russell,) in re- 
lation to the exclusion of soldiers who had fought at Quebec 
and Stoney Point under the banners of Montgomery and 
Wayne. And he felt the necessity of doing this, because such 
cases, urged by such gentlemen as his honorable friend, were 
calculated to make a deep and lasting impression. But although 
a regard for them did honor to that gentleman, yet it was the 
duty of the Convention to guard against the admission of those 
impressions which sympathy in individual cases may excite. 
It was always dangerous to legislate upon the impulse of indi- 
vidual cases, where the law about to be enacted is to have a 
general operation. With reference to the case of our soldiers, 
the people of this State and country had certainly redeemed 
themselves from the imputation that republics are ungrateful. 



16 

With an honorable Hberahly they had bestowed the mihlary 
lands upon them ; and to gladden the evening of their days, 
had provided them with pensions. Few of those patriots were 
now living, and of that few, the number was yearly diminish- 
ing. In fifteen years, the grave will have covered all those 
who now survived. Was it not, then, unwise to hazard a 
wholesome restrictive provision, lest in its operation it might 
affect these few individuals for a very short time ? He would 
add no more. His duty would not permit him to say less 

One word on the main question before the committee. We 
had already reached the verge of universal suffrage. There 
was but one step beyond. And are gentlemen prepared to lake 
that step ? We were cheapening this invaluable right. He 
was disposed to go as far as any man in the extension of ra- 
tional liberty ; but he could not consent to undervalue this pre- 
cious privilege, so far as to confer it with an undiscriminating 
hand upon every one, black or white, who would be kind 
enough to condescend to accept it. 

Extract from proceedings of Saturday, October 6, 1821. 
^Page 366. 

The question in order was on the part of the section express- 
ed in the words following : 

" And also every male citizen of the age of twenty-one years 
who shall have been for three years next preceeding such elec- 
tion, an inhabitant of this State ; and for the last year a resi- 
.dent in the town, county, or district where he may offer his 
vote ; and shall have been within the last year assessed to labor 
■upon the pubhc highways, and shall have performed the labor 
or paid an equivalent therefor, according to law, shall be enti- 
tled to vote in the town or ward where he actually resides, and 
not elsewhere, for all officers that now are, or hereafter may 
be elective by the people." 

Mr, Van Buren said, that as the vote he should now give 
on what was called the highway qualification would be diffe- 
rent from what it had been on a former occasion, he felt it a 
duty to make a brief explanation of the motives which governed 
him. The qualifications reported by the first committee, were 
of three kinds, viz : the payment of a money tax — the per- 
formance of military duty, and working on the highway. The 
two former had met with his decided approbalion ; to the latter, 
he wished to add the additional qualification, that the elector 
should, if he paid no tax, performed no military duty, but of- 
fered his vote on the sole ground that he had labored on the 
highways, also be a house-holder ; and that was the only point 
in which he had dissented from the report of the committee. 
To effect this object, he supported a motion made by a gentle- 



17 

man from Dutchess, to strike out the highway quahfication, 
with a view of adding " householder.''^ That motion, after 
full discussion, had prevailed by a majority of twenty. But 
what was the consequence ? The very next day, the same 
gentleman who thought the highway tax too liberal a qualifica- 
tion, voted that every person of twenty-one years of age, hav- 
ing a certain term of residence, and excluding actual paupers, 
should be permitted to vote for any officer in the government 
from the highest to the lowest — far out-vieing in this particular 
the other States in the Union and verging from the extreme oj 
restricted, to that of universal suffrage. The Convention, sen- 
sible of the very great stride which had been taken by the last 
vote, the next morning referred the whole matter to a select 
committee of thirteen, whose report was now under considera- 
tion. That committee, though composed of gentlemen, a large 
majority of whom had voted for the proposition for universal 
suffrage, had now recommended a middle course, viz : the pay- 
ment of a money tax, or labor on the highway, excluding mi- 
htia service, which had, however been very properly reinstated. 
The question then recurred, shall an attempt be again made to 
add that of house-holder to the highway qualification, and run 
the hazard of the re-introduction of the proposition of the gen- 
tleman from Washington, abandoning all qualifications, and 
throwing open the ballot-boxes to every body — demolishing at 
one blow, the distinctive character of an elector, the proudest 
and most invaluable attribute of freemen ? 

Mr. Van Buren said, he had, on the motion of the gentle- 
man from Columbia, this day hinted at the numerous objec- 
tions which he had to the proposition which the other day pass- 
ed the convention, in regard to the right of suffrage : objec- 
tions which he intended to make, had the committee reported 
in favor of that vote ; and by which, when fully urged, he 
knew that he would be able to convince every member of this 
commiittee of the dangerous and alarming tendency of that pre- 
cipitate and unexpected prostration of all qualifications. At 
this moment, he would only say, that among the many evils 
which would flow from a wholly unrestricted suffrage, the fol- 
lowing would be the most injurious, viz : 

First. It would give to the city of New- York about twenty- 
five thousand votes ; whilst under the liberal extension of the 
right on the choice of delegates to this convention, she had but 
about thirteen or fourteen thousand. That the character of the 
increased number of votes would be such as would render their 
elections rather a curse than a blessing ; which would drive 
from the polls all sober minded people ; and such, he was hap- 

3 



18 

py to find, was the united opinion, or nearly so, of the delega- 
tion from that city. 

Secondly. It would not only be injurious to them, but that 
injury would work an equally great one to the western and 
northern parts of the State. It was the present consolation of 
our hardy sons of the west, that for their toils and their suffer- 
ings in reducing the wilderness to cultivation, they were cheer- 
ed by the conviction, not only that they would be secure in the 
enjoyment of their dear bought improvements, in consequence 
of their representation in the legislature, but that any increase 
of that representation gave them a still greater influence there. 
That as far as it respected this State, their march, and the 
march of empire kept pace. This arose from the circum- 
stance of the representation in the State being founded on the 
number of electors : and because almost every man in a new 
country was an elector, under the existing and contemplated 
qualifications ; whilst in the old counties, and especially in ci- 
ties, there were great numbers who would not be embraced by 
them. So great was this effect, that the city of New-York 
alone would, under the vote of the other day, have become en- 
titled to additional voters, over those who voted at the election 
of delegates, equal, or nearly so, to the whole number of votes 
of Ontario or Genesee. The direct consequence of which 
would be, that the additional representation of fourteen mem- 
bers, which are next year to be distributed among the counties, 
would, instead of going principally to the west, be surrendered 
to the worst population of the old counties and cities. 

And thirdly. The door would have been entirely closed 
against retreat, whatever might be our after conviction, found- 
ed on experience, as to the evil tendency of this extended suf- 
frage. 

The just equilibrium between the rights of those who have, 
and those who have no interest in the government, could, when 
once thus surrendered, never be regained, except by the sword. 
But according to the present report, if experience should point 
out dangers from the very extensive qualifications we were 
about to establish, the legislature might relieve against the evil, 
by curtailing the objects of taxation. By the establishment of 
turnpikes, the making of canals, and the general improvements 
of the country, the highway tax would naturally be lessened, 
and might, if the legislature thought proper, be hereafter con- 
fined to property, instead of imposing it as they now do, on 
adult male citizens. For one hundred years, at least, this 
would afford a sufficient protection against the evils which were 
apprehended. He would, therefore, notwithstanding his desire 
to have the qualification of householder added to the electors of 
the third description remain unchanged, accept the report of 



19 

the committee as it was, with the addition of the miHtary qua- 
Hiication, which he thought ought to be adopted, for the sake 
of principle, if for no other reason. He thought the commit- 
tee, constituted as they were, had done themselves great credit 
by their concession to the opinion of those from whom they dif- 
fered, and he, for one, returned them his sincere thanks. Un- 
der all circumstances, he would be well satisfied with the right 
of suffrage as it will now be established, and would give it his 
zealous support, as well in his capacity of delegate as that of 
citizen. 



Extract from the proceedings of Wednesday, October 3, 
1821. (Pa^e321.) 

fON THE MANNER OF APPOINTING OR ELECT- 
ING JUSTICES OF THE PEACE.] 

Mr. Van Buren said there was a variety of opinions as to 
the proper place for the depository of the appointing power. 
Those who advocated the propriety of placing it in the Gover- 
nor and senate, did not appear to be satisfied with the system 
which they advocated. He was anxious, before the question 
was decided, to remove their embarrassment, by designating 
the extent of power which was to be confided to this or that 
body — it was therefore his intention to submit a distinct propo- 
sition : and before he proceeded to do that, he would remark, 
that he most cordially concurred in opinion with the honorable 
gentleman from Albany, (Mr. Kent,) as to the importance of 
proceeding with harmony and good feeling. It had been to 
him a matter of surprise, that on a subject in which all were so 
deeply interested, and where individual interest could not be 
subserved, they should not be willing to preserve such feelings. 
A contrary course would undoubtedly have a direct tendency 
to weaken public confidence in the proceedings of the conven- 
tion ; if not generally, it would in the minds of the more en- 
lightened parts of the community. 

It was not to be disguised that that part of the report before 
the committee, relating to the appointment of justices of the 
peace, was by far the most important feature in the report ; if 
that was settled, the remaining part of it would be got along 
with very easily. Some had thought these magistrates ought 
to be elected, but he had at all times been opposed to their 
election ; and if he did not deceive himself, the force of the re- 
marks of gentlemen in favor of their election, had excited doubts 
in the mind of every man, as to the propriety of such a mea- 
sure. He concurred in the opinion which had been expressed 



20 

as to the impropriety of electing the higher officers of state, be- 
cause their duties were important : and it was to be feared that 
it would have a tendency to render their judgment subservient 
to their desire for a continuance in office. This was the prin- 
cipal argument which had been used. If there were other rea- 
sons, he did not know what they were. 

Tlie amount of business before the justices of the peace in 
this State was five times as great as all the business before the 
other courts — on this point, it appeared to him there was no 
room for a diversity of opinion — the truth of this statement 
could be ascertained by a reference to their proceedings. They 
were equally important as it respected criminal justice. 

As to the probable effect upon their independence, there is 
no room for a comparison. The judges of the supreme court 
are elected for a long term of time ; should the people become 
dissatisfied, even whole counties, these officers might not feel 
the effects of their displeasure till after a long time had elapsed: 
but apply this to justices of the peace, who administer justice 
in the immediate presence of their constituents, and are ex- 
posed to the daily scrutiny of those upon whom they are de- 
pendent; who are cognizant of all they do; and have the power 
of passing judgment upon them. If they are not satisfied with 
them, they must forfeit their offices. 

What could the single arm of a chief magistrate of this State 
do, towards suppressing a rebellion? It must be effected through 
the interposition of this inferior magistracy. He was willing 
to go as far as any man in endeavoring to curtail dangerous pa- 
tronage in distinct bodies of men ; but he would not go so far 
as to cut every cord that binds together the people to the go- 
vernment. 

It was at first thought advisable by the committee to have 
them appointed by the court of common pleas ; but on more 
mature deliberation it was concluded that it would be making 
political engines of them, and therefore it was abandoned, and 
the principle adopted which is contained in the report now be- 
fore the committee. There are different propositions before the 
committee, viz : for having them elective, for having them ap- 
pointed by the Governor and Senate, and for having them ap- 
pointed by the Governor and a council of six. 

Mr. V. B. said he would not pretend to raise any new argu- 
ment, but apply those which had been urged with so much 
force by the gentleman from Albany (Mr. Spencer,) who had 
first spoken this morning. His first objection was, that these 
men who are to be chosen as a council, are to be chosen by 
corrupt and intriguing men in their respective districts. If this 
be the case in these extensive districts, how much more so will 
it be in individual counties? And again, these men are to be 



21 

elected by a party, and therefore represent that party ; conse- 
quently all their acts will be characterized by party views ; and 
again, no decent man will undertake to perform a duty which 
will be sure to lead him into difficulty. Every man would be 
in favor of his friend, and would therefore give rise to all the 
hard feelings which have been so sorely felt in the method here- 
tofore practised by our present council. We have had some 
experience on this subject — I think, therefore, we ought not to 
proceed without serious deliberation. 

We have reported a project for the city of New-York, but 
we are informed that it does not meet with the appprobation of 
that city ; and is it reasonable to suppose that a similar plan 
would meet the feelings of the different counties ? 

Mr. V, B. would refer the committee, though with reluc- 
tance, to the proceedings of the past council of appointment — 
particularly to one act. During the last winter apprehensions 
were abroad 'ai this good city, that certain individuals would 
have too much influence in the council ; and to shut the door 
against this evil, the people took it into their own hands, called 
ward meetings to make arrangements for the selection of offi- 
cers in the city ; and it is known that it caused more difficulty 
than any other circumstance. 

He did not believe it would be benefiting the people, to ex- 
tinguish one great fire, and enkindle fifty-two small ones. The 
further this power could be removed from, the people, the bet- 
ter. He could not therefore consent to the proposition of the 
gentlemen from Oneida (Mr. Piatt,) and would ask the liberty 
of submitting to the consideration of the committee a project 
of his own. He submitted it under a full conviction of its 
practical utility, although it might not go so far towards meet- 
ing the views of the gentleman from Albany as would be desi- 
rable. His proposition is this : " To amend the second section 
of the report by adding thereto at the conclusion of the same 
the following words : " Who shall be appointed in the manner 
following, viz : " That the board of supervisors in every county 
in this State shall once in every years at such lime as the 

legislature may direct recommend to the Governor a list of per- 
sons equal in number to the justices of the peace by law autho- 
rized to be appointed for said county ; and the respective courts 
of common pleas of the several counties shall also recommend 
a list of the like number, and as often as any vacancies shall 
happen, the board of supervisors and courts of common pleas 
of the counties in which such vacancies may happen, shall re- 
commend lists of persons equal to the number of vacancies in 
such county ; and from the lists so recommended, the Gover- 
nor shall appoint and commission the justices of the peace for 
the respective counties — that the said justices shall hold their 



22 

offices for years, but may be removed by the Governor on 
the address of the body which recommended their appointment, 
stating in writing the grounds of such removal." 

This proposition, in the first place meets the views of the 
gentlemen who are desirous of removing this power from the 
seat of government, as the nominations must originate in the 
counties. No man will suppose that the Governor will go into 
the different counties of the State to influence the nominations ; 
he will merely have the right of discriminating between the in- 
dividuals nominated in the counties where they reside. This, 
then, is the first advantage — the second will be that the nomi- 
nations will be respectable. 

He could not agree in opinion with his honorable friend from 
Albany as to the merits of the magistrates in this State ; he 
considered them a very respectable body. The supervisors of 
a county coming from the different towns in that county, will 
be acquainted with the merits of the individuals in their respec- 
tive towns — there will be a rivalship for the most respectable 
candidates ; they will be selected for their respectability and 
responsibility ; and instead of depending for favoritism on the 
Executive, as has heretofore been the case under the former 
council, they will consider it their interest to send to the Go- 
vernor the most respectable names that they can select. The 
Governor may obtain any additional information which he may 
require from the representatives of the people in the legisla- 
ture. Should there be distinct parties in these counties, one in 
favor and the other opposed to the Governor, from both of 
which candidates should be nominated, he would, undoubtedly, 
knowing his own responsibility to the people, select from both 
political classes, with due attention to their qualifications and 
standing in society. It is unreasonable and rash to suppose 
that he would be confined to one particular class when an in- 
dulgence in such a course must be at his own expense — he can- 
not do it from ignorance or in the dark. 

The judges of the common pleas will be anxious to recom- 
mend the safest and best men, as they will have frequent oc- 
casion to sit with them in criminal cases. These were a few 
of the advantages arising from the plan which he proposed, 
although gentlemen may say it does not answer the public ex- 
pectation in bringing home to the doors of the people, this 
power of appointment. It will be seen that out of fourteen 
thousand officers which were heretofore dependent on this ge- 
neral appointing power, about eight thousand militia officers 
have been taken and thrown home to the people, leaving but a 
small number dependent on this general appomting power. It 
has been said that military appointments never excited great 



23 

interest ; although it may be true in part, it is not to the full 
extent : it has been carried so far that you could scarce meet a 
man who was not a colonel, whilst almost every man has felt 
a deep interest in the subject, either directly or indirectly. An 
attempt was once made in the JSenale of this State to vary the 
features of our militia system, it is well known that it excited 
great alarm. Instead of fourteen thousand appointments, there 
are now but six thousand to account for — three thousand are 
proposed to be provided for by the legislature as they may think 
proper — these are coroners, acknowledgers of deeds, exami- 
ners in chancery, &c. &c., leaving but about two thousand five 
hundred upon which the Governor will have a right to discri- 
minate. District attorneys, clerks of courts, mayors and re- 
corders are already provided for, and are to be appointed by 
the courts and common councils. Compare the number of of- 
ficers now under consideration, with the number heretofore ori- 
ginating in the general power — it leaves but a small proportion. 
Mr. Van Buren thereupon moved to pass over the second, 
third and fourth sections of the report in order to take up the 
fifth. (Lost) 



Extract from the proceedings of Monday, October Q, 1821. 

[QUALIFICATIONS OF COLOURED PERSONS.] 

(Page 374.) Mr. Platt moved to expunge the proviso in 
the first section, which declares that no person " other than a 
white man''^ shall vote, unless he have a freehold estate of the 
value of $250. 

(Page 376.) Mr. Van Buren said he had voted against a 
total and unqualified exclusion, for he would not draw a reve- 
nue from them, and yet deny to them the right of suffrage. 
But this proviso met his approbation. They were exempted 
from taxation until they had qualified themselves to vote. The 
right was not denied, to exclude any portion of the community 
who will not exercise the right of suffrage in its purity. This 
held out inducements to industry, and would receive his sup- 
port. 

(Page 377.) The question on striking out the proviso was 
then taken by ayes and noes, and decided as follows : 

Noes : — Messrs. Baker, Beckwith, Bowman, Breese, Briggs, 
Burroughs, Carpenter, Carver, Case, D. Clarke, Cramer, 
Dubois, Dyckman, Edwards, Fairlie, Fenton, Ferris, Frost, 
Howe, Humphrey, Hunt, Hunter, Hunting, Hurd, Lansing, 
Lawrence, A. Livingston, P. R. Livingston, McCall, Moore, 
Nelson, Park, Porter, Price, Pumpelly, RadchfF, Reeve, Ri- 



24 

cliards, Rockwell, Rose, Ross, Russell, Sage, R. Sanford, 
Schenck, Seaman, Seeley, Sharpe, Sheldon, I. Smith, R. 
Smith, Stagg, Starkweather, Swift, Tallmadge, Taylor, Ten 
Eyck, Townley, Townsend, Tripp, Tuttle, Van Buren, Van 
Fleet, Van Home, Ward, A. Webster, Wendover, N. Williams, 
Woods, Yates, Young. — 71. 

Ayes : — Messrs. Bacon, Barlow, Birdseye, Brooks, Buel, 
Child, R. Clarke, Day, Duer, Eastwood, Fish, Hees, Hoge- 
boom, Huntington, Jay, Jones, Kent, Munro, Paulding, Pitcher, 
Piatt, Rhinelander, Root, Sanders, N. Sanford, Spencer, Syl- 
vester, Van Ness, J. R. Van Rensselaer, S. Van Rensselaer. 
Wheaton, E. Williams, Wooster.— 33. 

I certify that I have carefully compared the foregoing extracts 
from the printed book entitled " Reports of the proceedings anc 
debates of the Convention of 1821, assembled for the purpose 
of amending the Constitution of the State of New-York ; con 
taining all \he official documents relating to the subject am 
other valuable matter, by Nathaniel H. Carter and William L 
Stone, reporters, and Marcus T. C. Gould, stenographer, Al 
bany. Printed and published by E. & E. Hosford, 1821 ;' 
and that the preceding are faithful copies of the passages ex 
tracted and of the whole of such passages. 

JOHN C. SPENCER. 

Albany, June 23, 1840. 



39 f 



